<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/chec ... m=1&nbwm=1" target="_blank">BBC Video Report</a>
Hydrogen Motorbike
Moderator: Trig
Without a doubt Ryan, to be honest we thought we were being a little more environmentally friendly when we opted for diesel... 
Wonder why the UK isn't looking at stuff such as Ethanol as America is and Brazil is already doing?
Wonder why the UK isn't looking at stuff such as Ethanol as America is and Brazil is already doing?
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...
I studied this as part of my environmental design degree, Hydrogen fuel cells and engines have been around for about 10 years now, only now are we starting to see them implemented into transport.
Hydrogen is the most efficient and 'green' fuel we are likely to see in a long time (besides vegetable oil).
As rasputin says, when you combust hydrogen, it's main by product is water which is formed when you combine hydrogen and oxygen.
In theory then, you can then 'boil' the water to release hydrogen and oxygen again, combusting the two products again to release the energy. . . .
Currently these engines (bmw has one too, and possibly honda), run on a tank of hydrogen gas, but in the future there's no real reason why you cant fill up with a tank of water and the only 'waste' product of combustion will be oxygen, which could then be used again in the process anyway.
Technology is way behind that at the moment, but you see my point.
For the timebeing, we should all really be using the diesel engine as it was intended originally, to run on vegetable oil.
But then we have a small issue of what to do with all the diesel oil which is of course a by product of producing other fuels and plastics.
Which then leads us on to one of the original causes. Plastic use. . . . Just look around at the amount of plastic used in everyday life.
It's use must be having a pretty significant impact on the oil supply. It's like a hidden issue becuase it's not an obvious contributor to the oil usage, but why isn't it taxed as heavily as fuel?
People like tesco's and other packaging company's shouldn't be allowed to get away with the amount of plastic they use in packaging. It's rediculous!
I could go on about this all day, really makes me mad
Hydrogen is the most efficient and 'green' fuel we are likely to see in a long time (besides vegetable oil).
As rasputin says, when you combust hydrogen, it's main by product is water which is formed when you combine hydrogen and oxygen.
In theory then, you can then 'boil' the water to release hydrogen and oxygen again, combusting the two products again to release the energy. . . .
Currently these engines (bmw has one too, and possibly honda), run on a tank of hydrogen gas, but in the future there's no real reason why you cant fill up with a tank of water and the only 'waste' product of combustion will be oxygen, which could then be used again in the process anyway.
Technology is way behind that at the moment, but you see my point.
For the timebeing, we should all really be using the diesel engine as it was intended originally, to run on vegetable oil.
But then we have a small issue of what to do with all the diesel oil which is of course a by product of producing other fuels and plastics.
Which then leads us on to one of the original causes. Plastic use. . . . Just look around at the amount of plastic used in everyday life.
It's use must be having a pretty significant impact on the oil supply. It's like a hidden issue becuase it's not an obvious contributor to the oil usage, but why isn't it taxed as heavily as fuel?
People like tesco's and other packaging company's shouldn't be allowed to get away with the amount of plastic they use in packaging. It's rediculous!
I could go on about this all day, really makes me mad
Interesting stuff.
What about Ethanol?
I suppose they not only have to look at the impact of usage of the fuel in question, but also the impact of the processes involved in its production. What good will need to be taken out of the environment to make a tank of fuel, and conversely, what will need to be spewed into the environment to make a tank of fuel. (This point is separate to the question about Ethanol btw)
What about Ethanol?
I suppose they not only have to look at the impact of usage of the fuel in question, but also the impact of the processes involved in its production. What good will need to be taken out of the environment to make a tank of fuel, and conversely, what will need to be spewed into the environment to make a tank of fuel. (This point is separate to the question about Ethanol btw)
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...
Ethanol is an alcohol, produced by fermenting organic food and waste.
Very good fuel potentially, but not that good for an engine i dont think. I'd assume it burns a lot hotter than petrol (alcohol = blue flame, petrol = orange). So cant simply be a petrol substitute unless it has additives to make it burn cooler.
There are additives in petrol too, when they burn, they produce toxins.
Unrefined petrol wont be very good for your engine either.
Without reading into it more, i'd assume burning ethanol is better potentially.
You're right about the hidden elements of fuel production, and transportation of fuel cant be overlooked.
I doubt there are many accurate figures for this, but it really cant be good can it.
PLus you have to take into account oil seepage and disasters, like the one just recently, how much oil was dumped into the sea?
Very good fuel potentially, but not that good for an engine i dont think. I'd assume it burns a lot hotter than petrol (alcohol = blue flame, petrol = orange). So cant simply be a petrol substitute unless it has additives to make it burn cooler.
There are additives in petrol too, when they burn, they produce toxins.
Unrefined petrol wont be very good for your engine either.
Without reading into it more, i'd assume burning ethanol is better potentially.
You're right about the hidden elements of fuel production, and transportation of fuel cant be overlooked.
I doubt there are many accurate figures for this, but it really cant be good can it.
PLus you have to take into account oil seepage and disasters, like the one just recently, how much oil was dumped into the sea?
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Rasputin
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To your packaging point Hippy I whole grain Wheat heartly agree. Why can't they use a Net sack made from cotton to hold all fruit and so on. the TAX should be very heavy on packaging, I bought a pack of rolls the other day and it had 3 plastic wraps round it when one would have done.
Honda Do have a Hydrogen engine and some very interesting ideas about how to remove the Hydrogen from water because at the moment the amount of power used is not efficient and uses alot power, so why not get the Gas Station to make the power itself. Use Solar power panels on top of the fore court and the Water turning turbines to create the power needed to get the Hydrogen from water.
<a href="http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060108FCX/" target="_blank">Linky to Honda</a>
Honda Do have a Hydrogen engine and some very interesting ideas about how to remove the Hydrogen from water because at the moment the amount of power used is not efficient and uses alot power, so why not get the Gas Station to make the power itself. Use Solar power panels on top of the fore court and the Water turning turbines to create the power needed to get the Hydrogen from water.
<a href="http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060108FCX/" target="_blank">Linky to Honda</a>
Last edited by Rasputin on Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rasputin
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Dangerous Bob
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I'm looking for a pie chart i saw when i was at uni which splits up the oil industry into sections for gas, petrol, diesel, plastic etc.
It shows how much plastic is really used in the industry compared to petrol.
Cant find it though.
Found this one which details the %age of use within plastic production itself, over 35% is for packaging!
the building trade has a lot to answer for too, but you have to remember that plastics in packaging are designed to be thrown away, plastics in a building have a lifespan of 100 years or so.
In my opinion, the use of new fuels is guarantee'd, because technology that is cheap and efficient is bound to catch on, whereas in the food industry, plastic packaging is the cheap efficient method. It just happens to be terrible for the environment.
The govornment need to motivate the manufacturers to stop using plastic so much.
Go on. .
It shows how much plastic is really used in the industry compared to petrol.
Cant find it though.
Found this one which details the %age of use within plastic production itself, over 35% is for packaging!
the building trade has a lot to answer for too, but you have to remember that plastics in packaging are designed to be thrown away, plastics in a building have a lifespan of 100 years or so.
In my opinion, the use of new fuels is guarantee'd, because technology that is cheap and efficient is bound to catch on, whereas in the food industry, plastic packaging is the cheap efficient method. It just happens to be terrible for the environment.
The govornment need to motivate the manufacturers to stop using plastic so much.
Yes mate.Dangerous Bob wrote: You talking about the Napoli Hips?
I can tell you exactly how much we lost in the sea if you like.
And also how much we could have lost if the thing had sunk in deeper water.
Go on. .
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Human-Shield
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Hipps im impressed, the haircut has made you all responcible and talking sense! Wicked.
Agreed packaging is a major issue but also more so for us blokes. The plastic covered packaging that you get your weight watchers (or not) ready meal in contains oestrogen (spelling) that gives you man boobs! So for those with saggy tits (of their own!) stop eating ready meals and you will notice a reduction.
There are lots of potential fuels that are significantly better than petrol and for the enviroment. Howver there are two issues. 1. the car makers and 2 the goverment/oil industry. Dont for a moment think that youll be filling up with water unless it carrys a 75% tax on it! The fuels of the future will definatly not be cheeper.
Agreed packaging is a major issue but also more so for us blokes. The plastic covered packaging that you get your weight watchers (or not) ready meal in contains oestrogen (spelling) that gives you man boobs! So for those with saggy tits (of their own!) stop eating ready meals and you will notice a reduction.
There are lots of potential fuels that are significantly better than petrol and for the enviroment. Howver there are two issues. 1. the car makers and 2 the goverment/oil industry. Dont for a moment think that youll be filling up with water unless it carrys a 75% tax on it! The fuels of the future will definatly not be cheeper.
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Rasputin
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Human-Shield wrote:
There are lots of potential fuels that are significantly better than petrol and for the enviroment. Howver there are two issues. 1. the car makers and 2 the goverment/oil industry. Dont for a moment think that youll be filling up with water unless it carrys a 75% tax on it! The fuels of the future will definatly not be cheeper.
QFT
Well Said
Rasputin
