Interesting Physics
Moderator: Dangerous Bob
In recent times physics has become a great deal more interesting. There probably hasn't been a more earth-shattering science news story since they discovered the earth wasn't flat...
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236" target="_blank">Neutrinos faster than light?</a>
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236" target="_blank">Neutrinos faster than light?</a>
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...
Did you watch the thing that was on BBC2, think its probably dropped form iplayer by now if you did miss it.
General theory is that things cant break the speed limit and that Einstein's law about the speed of light being the absolute speed limit for the universe still stands but they are now saying that particles can be created that are already travelling beyond the speed of light when they are created hence both can still work.
General theory is that things cant break the speed limit and that Einstein's law about the speed of light being the absolute speed limit for the universe still stands but they are now saying that particles can be created that are already travelling beyond the speed of light when they are created hence both can still work.
Hmm... as far as I know that one's still completely theoretical. However, your experimental data'ing would make for an interesting peer review. ..Hammer wrote: I get confused with physics. How comes the heavier a girl is the easier she is to pick up?
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...
Yes, that may be the case, principles don't need to change. But the practicalities open once unimaginable doors. If mankind in our region of the earth had refused to think outside the box and arrogantly stuck with the flat earth theory, the world's geopolitics would be completely different.Trig wrote: Did you watch the thing that was on BBC2, think its probably dropped form iplayer by now if you did miss it.
General theory is that things cant break the speed limit and that Einstein's law about the speed of light being the absolute speed limit for the universe still stands but they are now saying that particles can be created that are already travelling beyond the speed of light when they are created hence both can still work.
Our Universe just gets more and more amazing the closer we look at it. No discovery within it ever disappoints. Our excessive introspective drivel often leads us to think that just because we've read the first sentence of the first chapter of the million volumes of our Universe, we think we know all there is to know on the matter.
Man... life just sooo good... and faaaaar to short...
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...
Indeed, the amount of time is incredibly small, the theory also doesnt work with supernova's as there was a nova x number of light years away, if we follwo the theory that nintendoes can travel faster than light the nintendoes from said nova should of reached us 4 eyars before the light from the nova did, however the nintendoes got here just after, as you would normally expect..
We must also factor into these scenarios that the neutrinos in this experiment were travelling through over 700KM of earth and rock. So, it can't be a comparison of like with like.
Following the supernova, light, and nintendo analogy, I wonder if the nature of their expulsion played a role in deciding which of the two arrived first. Light may be more conducive to being ejected by particular forces than neutrinos. Perhaps what the Hadron accelerator discovered was that neutrinos, under suitable circumstances, have the capacity to travel faster than light.
Regarding the fractions of a second this involves. If, on a typical day, light was travelling 1M/s and nintendos were travelling 1.1M/s, in the next second light has now travelled 2M, and the nintendo 2.2M. In the third second light has now travelled 3M, but the nintendo has now travelled 3.3M. The distance between light and the nintendo has an increased to 1.3M. This means that nintendos have gained an extra 0.2M over light. This distancing would continue to grow in proportion. Over a distance of 3M, this difference in distance is insignificant. However, when you ramp up the scale to the likes of the vastness of the Universe, then the significance is awesome.
So, could it be that by some means specific forces within the supernova had a more dramatic effect.
There are (according to current thinking) an interplay of four key forces in the Universe; Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, and Electromagnetism. It would be interesting to research what exactly happens within a supernova to establish what could have made the difference in arrival between light and the nintendo.
Going to bed now...
Following the supernova, light, and nintendo analogy, I wonder if the nature of their expulsion played a role in deciding which of the two arrived first. Light may be more conducive to being ejected by particular forces than neutrinos. Perhaps what the Hadron accelerator discovered was that neutrinos, under suitable circumstances, have the capacity to travel faster than light.
Regarding the fractions of a second this involves. If, on a typical day, light was travelling 1M/s and nintendos were travelling 1.1M/s, in the next second light has now travelled 2M, and the nintendo 2.2M. In the third second light has now travelled 3M, but the nintendo has now travelled 3.3M. The distance between light and the nintendo has an increased to 1.3M. This means that nintendos have gained an extra 0.2M over light. This distancing would continue to grow in proportion. Over a distance of 3M, this difference in distance is insignificant. However, when you ramp up the scale to the likes of the vastness of the Universe, then the significance is awesome.
So, could it be that by some means specific forces within the supernova had a more dramatic effect.
There are (according to current thinking) an interplay of four key forces in the Universe; Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force, Gravity, and Electromagnetism. It would be interesting to research what exactly happens within a supernova to establish what could have made the difference in arrival between light and the nintendo.
Going to bed now...
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...
I thought it was 5 forces, but still...
Yes thru rock and thru space are two different things, traveling thru space would mean more interaction with the 4/5 forces than a few hundred km of rock, the fact that its rock is irrelivant as nintendoes are plenty small enough to travel between the gaps in the rock. However in space theres a lot more things out there to effect it over a lot larger distance, radiation, gravity, other unknown foreign particles etc.
For all we know there might be different classes of nintendoes depending on what was used to create them in the first place, some might be more accustomed to FTL travel for instance..
Yes thru rock and thru space are two different things, traveling thru space would mean more interaction with the 4/5 forces than a few hundred km of rock, the fact that its rock is irrelivant as nintendoes are plenty small enough to travel between the gaps in the rock. However in space theres a lot more things out there to effect it over a lot larger distance, radiation, gravity, other unknown foreign particles etc.
For all we know there might be different classes of nintendoes depending on what was used to create them in the first place, some might be more accustomed to FTL travel for instance..
Sorry, I didn't properly express my point regarding the difference between light and neutrinos. Yes, neutrinos can apparently travel through anything, but light can't. Light, according to our current understanding, doesn't always behave the way we expect it on paper. But, facts indicate that it can be bent, refracted, and reflected, and probably other things too. So they definitely each have their unique properties, meaning that like cannot be compared with like. The astounding and yet contradictory thing about the two is that under one set of circumstances, neutrinos apparently went beyond the speed of light, and in another set of circumstances light, with a lot more potential for influence, arrived before the neutrinos.
It is establish fact that light can be influenced externally. So, what influenced (slowed?) the neutrinos, considering they can travel through anything, to allow the light from the supernova you mention to arrive first? We seem to be looking at an extremely complicated rule book. This entire scenario is as confounding as Young's Experiment... things happen that, according to our current understanding, just "shouldn't" happen.
Maybe, as you suggest, the answer lies in different types of neutrinos.
It is establish fact that light can be influenced externally. So, what influenced (slowed?) the neutrinos, considering they can travel through anything, to allow the light from the supernova you mention to arrive first? We seem to be looking at an extremely complicated rule book. This entire scenario is as confounding as Young's Experiment... things happen that, according to our current understanding, just "shouldn't" happen.
Maybe, as you suggest, the answer lies in different types of neutrinos.
Last edited by Claw on Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just be a nutter... life becomes much more exciting, and people won't expect anything more of you...